It is best to get 50 percent left-side weight when possible. Wedge is a term used in the Whats your SETUPS Dirt Track Racers? - Racing Forum - j-body Do youhave recommendations for such corner weight percentages? The LF needs to go up 0.3125 and the RF needs to go down the same amount. and without me in the driver seat and yup, the theory is right--the cross weight (i.e., if we move the RF adjuster two rounds, then we will move the LF adjuster 2.5 rounds.) Many successful race teams use corner weighting to achieve the same F/R % on both sides equal, not cross weight. the same time. Thanks. 50% then Wedge Delta will be 0. Are they non-adjustable? racers only turn left we can balance the car for better grip in left Basically so long as I don't completely overcook a corner entry, it does better than any car this heavy has any right to Good stuff. That is why it gets tighter. 2023 Motorsport Marketing. I run generally 34F/30R for the street and usually (again depending on the day) drop the fronts to around 30~ and the rears to 26 or 28. I had the same question. Adjust the cross weight for more extreme conditions or different circumstances. That math gives us a percentage number to . That is what you need to read on the spring rate fixture at installed shock length. If you raise the ride height at a given corner (put a turn in or add a round of wedge), the weight on that corner will increase, as will the weight on the diagonally opposite corner. I use 2x6 wood planks as ramps to drive the car onto Bite tells us how much we Corner weight system - R/C Tech Forums Thinking about this a little, the weight measured by the scales is the sum of the force of gravity acting on the car's mass, and the force of the springs pressing downward. Grassroots Motorsports Understanding Corner Weights. If we subtract the existing ride heights from the desired, we have front low by 0.0625-inch and the rear high by 0.4375-inch. Other things to take into consideration are track conditions and weather changes. You will have to repeat this every time you lower the car onto So 2.5" springs and experimenting is the way to go- I think I know that much.. . It's Choose your ride heights before you measure and/or redesign your front geometry and then maintain those chosen ride heights. Setup Routine - JOES Racing Products Cross weighting is crap for road courses and only applies to turning one direction OR if the car is about 50/50 F/R weight to begin with. Also you will obviously want to have some way to ensure all your scale pads are level with each other. g) Oval track and road racers use slightly different vocabularies to describe the adjustments made to their cars and the effects these adjustments have on the car's handling. Get it right and your car launches down the corner, hits that hard hairpin just right and holds the corner at full throttle. track are left turns then having more weight on the Right Front and Left Rear This gets very tedious, given the number of iterations it typically takes to get the corner weights right. It seems to me that if there's bind in the suspension that's preventing all the force of the springs to come into play, the weight read by the scales will be less than the correct value. upgrading our street stock suspension part 2 the rear end. This is but one method and I encourage everyone to ask around and find a method that works for your type of car, this one may not be the most efficient. Using dead strut inserts could be an option for cars with strut suspension. the scales. The angles are another way to set the suspension for the desired ride height and cross-weight percentage. May 2017 -Dirt late model pinning RF & heavy axle tube. As long as the tires have near "1 to 1 traction" with the ground, you should set up your race car like an asphalt car (see the Chassis Set-up At The Rear For Cornering page). Exhaust/Headers, Limited Slip Differentials and Fuel Injectors, Engine Dyno Tuning, Racing Wheels and Air Dam/Splitters, The Costs of Racing Personal Safety Equipment & the Racecar, Brake Pads, Fluid Routine Maintenance Timeline, Dealing with Cosmetic Bodywork: Painting the Racecar Interior. Motor: 550 or 540 motors only. shocks set to same length left to right (front to rear will be different). Intercomp SW500 EZ Weigh Scales. 2 coils cut off springs 4 corners. That makes every little detail that much more important. coil over 5 turns. Shock binding is not caused by the fluid (which is only a factor withfluid movement through orifices/valves), but from the seals, which possess both static and dynamic friction. anti-roll bar with the end-link adjusted so it's easy to insert the Your results might be different from mine. Chassis FAQ | Hyper Racing The shock length as it is installed in the car at ride height. very close to ideal. I put the car on grease tiles so the tires move freely on the scales and then I bounce each end a couple times. The SRM will determine the relative changes to the spring height adjusters for weight changes. , = change needed to get to target weight, Cross Weight = When I first lowered it onto the scales, its total weight wasin the low 2600 lb range, which is way too light, considering the car's stock curb weight is 3086, and I took less than 250 lb out of it. Then just leave them attached. stiff springs on your coil overs. rear should be the same. Here's a box stock 2006 Honda S2000 with 5/8 of a Also double check that the Corner weighting can be a complicated process for you to complete without someone who is experienced helping you. Motors / ESC: Any 1/10th scale motor/esc combo allowed. I needed 3 tiles on the left front and 1 on the left rear turn and ended up with a perfect 50.0% cross weight. Disconnect the sway bar. Ask your chassis builder or establish what you want and decide that these will be what you run from now on. The roll center is an imaginary point around which the rear of the race car rolls. Check stagger at each tire, even if using radials. Make small changes at the track, and make only one change at a time. for the front and rear sway bars and installed them with my girl friend sitting that turns equally well in both directions. If you lower the ride height at a given corner, that corner will lose weight as will the diagonally opposite corner. If it slows to 100rpm, the outside wheel will spin at 300rpm. over). on the right front and left rear tires. Taking the time and making the effort always pay dividends. Remember that there are several ways you can maintain ride heights at the track, with loaded spring length measurements, chassis to lower control arm or chassis to rear axle tube measurement are some of those. Corner_Balance.zip Excel spreadsheet. The only way to change static weight is to physically move weight or ballast in the car. Plus it sounds like street and autocross pressures are about the same stagger front to rear, so it really shouldn't have a noteworthy impact. stiff springs on your coil overs. Corner Balance Calculator - Rob Robinette suspension changes to track your progress. Step 1: Setup And Tuning The Tires Most regular RC cars use rubber tires. Use those racing internet forums, and dont be timid about asking for some assistance! My shocks are double adjustable, as many will be when at this level of prep. I tried the few inches several times on the scales before each reading though just for good You can drop the front end slightly or raise the rear end for more aggressive turn-in. Cross Weight or Wedge. 14. All 4 scales must be within 1/8 of an inch. Since oval Yeah generally its the same stagger 9/10 times. Jun 7, 2018 #5 . Or maybe I read the post wrong. I use this technique and it The tiles & salt seemed to help because the weight never Funny. "Many racers are running stacked springs (pictured), or dual-rate springs, or soft, long-travel . Doing the multiplication to square that number, we get 1.1056. supposed to. Right Front = There is a reason for this order. Bite should be positive for oval racing, Wedge = It's a lot of Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but I was amazed when I got my new scales, and let my car down on them for the first time. You can make this adjustment in several ways: If you don't want to change the ride height of the car then (Right Front + Left Rear) / (Left Front + Right Rear), When balanced the Cross Weight % will be 50%. LR = left rear. Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much The suspension of the racecar uses the same general theory and needs to be adjusted so that the car is stable. To properly corner weight the car, it is necessary to add weight to the drivers seat which is approximately equal to the weight of the driver (or have the driver sit in the car). Because karts have so much caster having the steering turned even slightly will cause a big change in the corner weights. Caster Creativity - JOES Racing Products This means the driver should be in the car, all fluids topped up, and the fuel load should be such that the car makes your minimum weight rule at the designated time-usually after a race. 9. In this example, we will adjust the crossweight percentage on a sample car with different rate springs. It was a good car. Calculate the spring rate multiples. This keeps the ride heights as close to ideal as possible. 11. This makes the cornering force balanced from left to right and offers the best performance overall. For dual a-arm solutions, dead shocks can be used with springs and they can be built with much less bind out of the box. corner weight calculations: Corner_Balance.zip Road racers can take a page out of the oval racing book and the same time. Make sure the floor is perfectly level; use shims under the scale pads if needed. "Springs and chassis components can be adjusted to push down on one rear wheel," Bickel said. A common example of caster is a shopping cart. Adjusting the sway bar is time consuming and questionable unless it is really stiff. I looked back and I don't think I've ever done an article on this subject and I can't understand why. As with the table, the corresponding diagonal corner of the vehicle gets more of the car's weight. I used a laser level to project a horizontal These are your current calculated weights: Left Weight = Dirt Late Models. close to where I wanted it. Once you get the car up on the scales you'll This will pitch the vehicle's. I stretched my tires to get the RR right and now I'm . There are many ways to corner balance a car. Wedge Delta and what values work best for certain tracks and conditions If we remember, or record this number, then we can easily make changes in the future to get to our intended crossweight percent fast and easy. June 2017 -Center spring steering, corner judder w/ swing axle or beam axle . of the scale to take a reading. When that time arrives, you walk across the racing surface, into the dirt oval's imperfectly defined center, and meet your instructor. The left rear link angles are less critical because that corner moves much less than the right side on asphalt cars. Then if it's for a particular road course, you will find several seconds optimizing for select turns and throwing any of the above methods out the window A friend's Chump Car found 2 sec at VIR making it turn right better than left. To find LR weight: So, deviating from those numbers will mean you have a design other than what was intended for the car. If you decide to have a tuning shop complete the corner weighting and assuming you are not driving the car to the shop, disconnect the rear sway bar yourself to save the shop time and you money. If most of the important turns on your The CG height %Right Weight = Delta which is simply the difference between the two diagonal tire weights. Kart racing chassis are designed in a manner to allow it to turn the only way it can, without having a read differential - with the inside rear tire lifting off the track on corner entry. On a road course, the variety of corners require a wider range of performance; the setup needs to yield good speed through a fast kink and a slow hairpin. The problem with this option is simply that hub stands aren't cheap - the lowest priced ones I've found are $849, kind of a lot of money for something most people wouldn'tdo all that often. We run a fixed chassis meaning no suspension and the Briggs lo206 so we aren't sliding it around the corner but tracking almost like an asphalt Kart. As for setting the left side and right side equal, I understandthe reason why it might be best, but hard for me to picture how to adjust it. LR coil overs 2 1/2 turns. 2. be appropriate such as making small adjustments to all 4 wheels--add preload to racers only turn left we can balance the car for better grip in left left to right. Wedge is a term used in the At the right rear, a quarter-inch change in the height of the end of the link will change the angle and can make an asphalt car undriveable. I even thought my excel spreadsheet calculated it's recommended corner weights to achieve 50% cross weight. 1 Establish the corner weights you think you need for your car. A stiffer spring on one corner equals more weight transfer to that corner. 1) Tweak: Tweak is the amount of weight on the LR as opposed to the RR. How To Set Up RC Dirt Oval A Guide - Explained! Your car can lose ride height during the race and you need to be at minimum after you leave Victory Lane. turns. The nose weight is simple to remember the tricky ones are - cross and left side adjustments. started with the Left Front because I wanted to raise the ride height of the car And since the necessary scales to complete this process cost in excess of $1,000, I suggest you have the corner weighting done by finding another club racer in your area who has (or knows someone with) access to scales and would be willing to help you. retract the right rear tire which puts more weight on the Left Rear and Even if you pay someone a small amount of money for their help, it will be far better than buying the scales yourself. Cross Weight % = Similarly, dirt oval cars often represent crossweight as "bite", or weight on the left-rear tire relative to the right-rear tire. and measured between the outside bottom rim edge is 67.75" front and 69.875" the RF coil over 5 turns. . used linoleum tiles to shim two of my scales to get them all level. about 1/8" of wheel movement) to reduce the weight on the right front and left It is important that you complete the corner weighting process before doing an alignment. My track width with CE28 17" x 9" wheels Corner Balance - Rob Robinette tiles) on the left front and 1 on the left rear to level the scales. Auto-Ware (Autoware Inc) auto racing reference library (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); I still needed more weight on the Left Front and Right Rear so I added + 4 I mainly run the 3/8. turns. The fact about this concept is when you put a softer right rear bar in, the car rolls more to the right rear but it is actually transferring less weight. On Dirt cars, adding Rebound to the Right Rear will make the car more stable when it slides into the cushion. Crossweight is calculated by adding the RF and LR weights and then dividing that sum by the total weight. Today's oval Conversely, if the car feels tight throughout the corner, raise both track bars. Still, it is a worthwhile goal to strive for 50 percent left-side weight. Once you get the car up on the scales you'll traction or bite in left turns. If you don't have adjustable end links on your Wedge Delta can also be thought of Then there is what I do for FWD stuff That is forget the rear weights entirely, and just balance the fronts to be equal. lb driver, no passenger, spare tire removed, soft top up, Magnaflow mufflers (-20lbs), Braille It is best to make small changes at each corner, instead of a big change at one corner. can help us get our setup right with less testing. Toe inn a 1/4 inch. If you know the front, side, and crossweight percentages, then you can calculate the numbers. . Keeping track of Bite and However, many cars cannot make the 50 percent left-side weight percentage due to driver offset. It's one reason why racing pushrod suspensions tend to employ geometry with minimal shock/spring movement,requiring ultra-high spring rates and very high damping force shocks. But this is almost never the case. The total weight will ALWAYS be correct unless you can find some way to suspend gravity, if you can let me know. Also double check that the see on the right side of the spreadsheet's "Target Corner Weights" section that The proper progression for these two parameters is to establish ride height first and then set the corner weights, which comes down to setting the crossweight. positive Bite and positive Wedge Delta. turn to the RF simply to raise the ride height of the front of the car. To carry the wheel load, the spring must be compressed quite a bit. You can also put two linoleum tiles with salt between them on Bite = Left Rear - Right Rear and a positive value means the On the other hand, it drives really, REALLY good for being setup by this idiot behind the keyboard, and I really don't wanna spoil a good setup by chasing after a perfect setup at least not yet. In our example, the front average is 4.25 and the rear is 4.75. Corner weighting your car is Wedge Delta and what values work best for certain tracks and conditions They are never level. Example: RF = 643, LR = 751, so, (643 + 751) 2,800 = 0.498, or 49.8 percent. In order for the table to stand steady, all four legs should be of equal length, and as a consequence each will apply equal pressure on the floor. you run on the track. Here are some setup tips that will help you really get the most of of your Slash: > Keep it clean. I race in a spec class, so everyone is using the same equipment. % 50% is optimal, Wedge = Track Side Quick Reference - FMI Knowledge Base - FMI Racing Cross weight and left side work backwards in terms of adjustment. Positive front toe (tires pointing in) generally is desirable on lightweight cars that don't have a lot of shifting weight, such as go-karts. In our example, move the LR and RR corners down by 0.4375-inch. [ 1] In circle track racing, the use of the term "crossweight" gives us an indication of the weight distribution on the four tires. 13. Left Rear tire is carrying more weight so it will get more traction and How To Understand Differentials - RC Car Action % two years. this excellent article: Excessive front toe in will make a car turn into a corner quicker, & may create a loose condition. Before putting your car on the scales you need to power up does not change when a driver is added. It's always possible that there's something wrong with my scales - I'll call their manufacturer and get their input an recommendations, and I'll let everybody know what they say. scales are connected properly--you can really screw up your suspension settings For our example, we use LF 4.00, RF 4.50, LR 4.50, RR 5.00. Here are some points to remember when weighing your race car: How to renovate an old mill | Making stuff: Part 6, Tech tips | Understanding fender rolling, downsizing tires, wheel spacers and what makes a race wheel, How to build a splitter for only $100 | Against the wind: Part 3. line above the scales and then stood on each scale and placed a ruler on the top Oval The Track (FATT) event and it handled superbly. Smaller will scrub less speed of if your not sideway threw the corner. tank of gas, and no driver or passenger: Now here's the same stock S2000 with a 215lb driver in the seat: I was really surprised to see how far off the stock S2000 was left to right (measured with a digital caliper) and my ride height was pretty For most karts, the following weight distribution is recommended: 43% Front Weight 57% Rear Weight 50% / 50% Left / Right Weight These are just recommended starting points. unbalanced--it will turn better in one direction than in the other (all other This is for a race prepped 1984 Audi 4000 quattro(2375lbs. On an average dirt track you will need to change tread and stagger at least once a night, due to changing conditions. The cosine of 18 degrees is 0.95106, and that into 1.0 is 1.05146. I created a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet do the following work but in the end it's worth it. When working with static weight distribution, we use two percentages to analyze the car's corner weights: Left weight percentage and rear weight percentage. Setup Tips for Asphalt Oval Racing Granted, moment centers will stay fairly consistent with small movements of the chassis in dive and roll from the ride heights being off a little. In the example at the beginning of the article, this was the problem: a cross-weight percentage that was less than 50 percent, and probably off by at least two percent. . 5. I highly recommend using a laser level to confirm the 4 scales are level to one I lowered the left rear spring perch 1 1/4 turn and put it on The front will show close to 60%. tires. Weight can be moved around at the track to fine tune the handling characteristics of the chassis. Your car may be designed to run different ride heights than these. You will never find a perfectly level spot at the track, so don't waste time looking, unless you can set up your scale pads and set up ramps level. One of the most important aspects of racing is having a good handling balance. Tire stagger | Bob's 4 Cycle Karting TVW CWP FWP or, 2,800 0.52 0.51 = 685B. I've had my cars corner balanced a lot, but never really looked into the science of it. Dirt or asphalt? That is because all of the points move together. camber angle of the wheels (-3.5 front, -3 rear). To favor right turns, put more weight on the If your car has coil over adjustable shocks you should consider For that level of caring, I wouldn't think too much about it. Hub stands are a great idea just for ease of access, but removing friction is an added benefit. The more rear weight bias, the tighter the chassis will be coming out of a turn. At the front, we will move the LF and RF adjusters up by 0.0625-inch. For information on corner RC Dirt Oval Car Setup & Tuning Guide [5 Key Steps] from a balanced Cross Weight. from +1 overall to -1): I put + 3/4 of a turn back on the Right Front and ended up Beyond that, if your bushingsand other parts bind on the scales then they're also going to bind out on the road, so who cares? First some baselines. Take your shock, compute the spring preload, and compress the shock/spring combo to the installed spring height in your spring rate fixture. , Left Rear = You can also estimate your car's Typically, this adjustment will make the car tighter on corner entry or in the center, and a little looser on exit. If you don't have adjustable end links on your anti-roll bars My starting cross weight was 50.6%, I was off 7lbs Right Rear weight: < Enter your corner weights in pounds or kilos and click 'Calculate'. Strive for repeatable and take the measurement as a data point, instead of an absolute. Note the "Conditions and Changes Made" oval racing world and is simply another word for Cross Weight. Wheelbase: 9.5" min, 11.5" max Maximum width: 10.250" Minimum weight: 57.0 oz All cars must have 4-wheel independent suspension, single speed transmissions only. Suggested Adjustment Procedure for Oval Track - KONI NA coil over 5 turns. Even on a track with mostly right-hand turns, the problem in the left-hand turns costs a lot of time. A good starting point would be tank of gas. Kart Scaling & Weight Distribution - Woodbridge Kart Club tires. Calculate the rear weight bias by adding the rear weight (LR and RR) of the chassis and dividing it by the total weight of the chassis (LF + RF + LR + RR). On oval track cars, cross-weight is usually used in conjunction with stagger (where the right rear tire is larger in circumference than the left rear tire) to balance handling. I have now added the ratios so I can visually see what's happening. Basically - after you finish the set up routine, the car goes in the hauler. How To Set Up Your Car for Oval Track Racing - RacingJunk News 6. Interested in hearing peoples' opinions and (preferably) experiences. typically not concerned with bite and wedge delta because they usually turns to the Right Rear: I still needed more weight on the LF and RR so I added +4 to the LF: I still needed more so I added +2 to the RR and drove the Any corner weight adjustments that you make will impact the alignment of your car. The ultimate goal is to find the balance that will eventually lead to faster lap times. difficult to position all 4 scales so you can just drive up on all of them at This will not change the left-side or rear weight percentages. My car is a 1987 Honda CRX, set up according toITC class rules. but tend too love the 1/2 miles.I just cant figure out a way too get these. I weigh 220. I will say that if I'm starting on a fresh setup, or the car has been lowered, or I find myself making massive spring perch changes, then I will loosen all of the suspension bolts so that the bushings can relax and find their new happy place. per wheel. However, if you have to apply opposite lock steering (turning the steering wheel to the right) and you drive the car throughout the corner balancing it with the throttle . But in a right turn, the opposite occurs and the handling is worse. Determine your ride heights. Tell the shop you will be disconnecting the rear sway bar when obtaining the estimate. Kart WHEEL BALANCE - www.KartPartsDepot.com will help with those turns. Since this article still gets a bunch of traffic, just bumping it up. Guess I have to try it. Scale Type: . If you think about this process and become familiar with the intent of it, then your process for setting ride heights and weight distribution should become easier and faster to do, not to mention less frustrating. I started out with the KW spring perches set exactly the same to measure your new springs and put the longest spring in the left front--this 4 Things You Should Never Do In A Front-Wheel Drive Car Front + Left Rear) - (Left Front + Right Rear) and tells us how much 4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe. %, Bite = % Wedge Delta will be 0 at 50% Wedge. Forum Actions: Forum Statistics: Threads: 167; Posts: 1,367; Last Post: . This obviously means that decreasing cross weight or left side weight You've tried springs, shocks, different bars, neutralizing the anti-roll bar, and nothing seems to work. of its weight on the Left Front and Right Rear tires, and 50% on the Right Front extra weight is on the left rear and right front tires which gives them Classic Truck. The same thing happens with a race car. Compressing the spring of a left-rear wheel or adding wedge puts more of the car's weight on that corner. then set corner weights and cross weight. More stagger usually loosens the handling in left turns, so more cross-weight is used to tighten it up. For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. knew I needed to put the car on the scales. MuddBoss Feature Winner at Dirt Devils RC Speedway, 12-18-2021. renting/borrowing/buying some scales and corner balancing your car.
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